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	Comments on: New Autism Study	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:09:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Robert S.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529524</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529524</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg: You are correct that I had not been able to find an accessible copy of the paper that the article commented on. However, if you read to the end of the article you linked to  you would find that it was a reprint. After seeing that I found the original article (commenting on the paper in Epidemiology 2009;20:84-90) and found the reprint was without the graphs.  I was unclear in my language regarding the press article vs the published paper which probably lead to my comment being misunderstood. 

Now that I have read the paper (thanks to Jennifer), I do have a problem with one of the conclusions made in the discussion section. They never seem to allow for early incidence not corresponding to the expected prevalence that might occur if the developmental delay was temporary. A very brief and shallow look at pubmed suggests that at least some children would no longer qualify under the diagnostic criteria if evaluated later (e.g. PMID: 17206522). Significant changes in the training of pre-k teachers in California has taken place since the last full birth cohort (1996). If nothing else it will be interesting to see if the conclusions drawn will correspond with the data as it develops over the next few years. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: You are correct that I had not been able to find an accessible copy of the paper that the article commented on. However, if you read to the end of the article you linked to  you would find that it was a reprint. After seeing that I found the original article (commenting on the paper in Epidemiology 2009;20:84-90) and found the reprint was without the graphs.  I was unclear in my language regarding the press article vs the published paper which probably lead to my comment being misunderstood. </p>
<p>Now that I have read the paper (thanks to Jennifer), I do have a problem with one of the conclusions made in the discussion section. They never seem to allow for early incidence not corresponding to the expected prevalence that might occur if the developmental delay was temporary. A very brief and shallow look at pubmed suggests that at least some children would no longer qualify under the diagnostic criteria if evaluated later (e.g. PMID: 17206522). Significant changes in the training of pre-k teachers in California has taken place since the last full birth cohort (1996). If nothing else it will be interesting to see if the conclusions drawn will correspond with the data as it develops over the next few years. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Joseph		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529523</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joseph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529523</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;So, Joseph, your criticism is then mainly with the media side of this?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Obviously, it&#039;s not mainly that. What I&#039;m saying is that the paper should not be given a pass just because it uses some skeptical language, when the authors (and others) clearly want to communicate that this is a definitive study proving the &quot;autism epidemic.&quot; For reference, this is how Dr. H-P is quoted by WebMD.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;When you put it all together, this doesn&#039;t come close to explaining the increases in the last 10 years,&quot; Hertz-Picciotto tells WebMD. &quot;The more you whittle away at this increase, the more you have to say that what is left over is real. Given that autism cases keep going up, and can&#039;t be fully explained by artifacts, environmental factors deserve serious consideration.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I took that from Autism Street, BTW, where you&#039;ll find yet another &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=297&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post on the matter&lt;/a&gt;, primarily looking at diagnostic substitution in California, which incidentally is hard to deny once you look at an aggregate of all special education categories. 

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So, Joseph, your criticism is then mainly with the media side of this?</p></blockquote>
<p>Obviously, it&#8217;s not mainly that. What I&#8217;m saying is that the paper should not be given a pass just because it uses some skeptical language, when the authors (and others) clearly want to communicate that this is a definitive study proving the &#8220;autism epidemic.&#8221; For reference, this is how Dr. H-P is quoted by WebMD.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;When you put it all together, this doesn&#8217;t come close to explaining the increases in the last 10 years,&#8221; Hertz-Picciotto tells WebMD. &#8220;The more you whittle away at this increase, the more you have to say that what is left over is real. Given that autism cases keep going up, and can&#8217;t be fully explained by artifacts, environmental factors deserve serious consideration.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I took that from Autism Street, BTW, where you&#8217;ll find yet another <a href="http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=297" rel="nofollow">post on the matter</a>, primarily looking at diagnostic substitution in California, which incidentally is hard to deny once you look at an aggregate of all special education categories. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Kev		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529522</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kev]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529522</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, its quite obvious that Joseph *has* read the paper. Its equally obvious that when you posted this blog entry, you had not. I&#039;m going to quote you something from the paper and then something from CDDS. See if you can spot the problem:

H-P:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The inclusion of milder cases has been suggested as an explanation for the increase in autism. Neither Asperger&#039;s syndrome nor &#039;pervasive developmental disorders not otherwise specified&#039; qualify under the category of autism in the DDS system.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

CDDS (private email)

&lt;blockquote&gt;The current CDER was written in 1978 and updated in 1986, which is why the language is so out of date ( e.g., Residual Autism). California has clinicians in the field who are, of course, using modern criteria in their assessments but then they have to go backwards and try to fit those kids into the 1986 CDER. So you are going to have Aspergers kids, PDD-NOS kids in both categories 1 and 2. Categories 1 and 2 are called &#039;Autism.&#039; But because there are so many clinicians, using lots of different techniques for evaluation, there is a lot of inconsistency and enrollment figures should not be misused as epidemiological data.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Can you see the problem with this paper yet?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, its quite obvious that Joseph *has* read the paper. Its equally obvious that when you posted this blog entry, you had not. I&#8217;m going to quote you something from the paper and then something from CDDS. See if you can spot the problem:</p>
<p>H-P:</p>
<blockquote><p>The inclusion of milder cases has been suggested as an explanation for the increase in autism. Neither Asperger&#8217;s syndrome nor &#8216;pervasive developmental disorders not otherwise specified&#8217; qualify under the category of autism in the DDS system.</p></blockquote>
<p>CDDS (private email)</p>
<blockquote><p>The current CDER was written in 1978 and updated in 1986, which is why the language is so out of date ( e.g., Residual Autism). California has clinicians in the field who are, of course, using modern criteria in their assessments but then they have to go backwards and try to fit those kids into the 1986 CDER. So you are going to have Aspergers kids, PDD-NOS kids in both categories 1 and 2. Categories 1 and 2 are called &#8216;Autism.&#8217; But because there are so many clinicians, using lots of different techniques for evaluation, there is a lot of inconsistency and enrollment figures should not be misused as epidemiological data.</p></blockquote>
<p>Can you see the problem with this paper yet?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529521</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529521</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, Joseph, your criticism is then mainly with the media side of this?  There is a very different slant when comparing the paper and the UCD press report (go read the whole thing, don&#039;t base anything on my little quote). And when we go one further step out into media land the fundamental nature of the paper is almost entirely lost, and it looks like a paper specifically asserting that there are specific environmental causes.

But that happens to all papers all the time.  No need to single this instance out as unique in this regard.   ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Joseph, your criticism is then mainly with the media side of this?  There is a very different slant when comparing the paper and the UCD press report (go read the whole thing, don&#8217;t base anything on my little quote). And when we go one further step out into media land the fundamental nature of the paper is almost entirely lost, and it looks like a paper specifically asserting that there are specific environmental causes.</p>
<p>But that happens to all papers all the time.  No need to single this instance out as unique in this regard.   </p>
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		<title>
		By: Joseph		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529520</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joseph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529520</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The paper is OK, a step forward in some areas, good and flawed at the same time, but not as interesting as the debate itself, in this case!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I completely disagree. I think people have been too kind to the paper, perhaps because it&#039;s not a paper by cranks. Frankly, I would&#039;ve expected a paper like this from the likes of the Geiers. 

The only novel result from the paper is the 1.2-fold rise due to age of diagnosis. (I would caution this should not be interpreted as age of diagnosis not having changed much - that&#039;s the change in the proportion of diagnoses by age 5). 

The other results are recycled from elsewhere. 

They use a single Finnish epidemiological study to come up with the figure on the impact of diagnostic criteria. It&#039;s a complete stretch to suggest that the results of that study might be applicable to California DDS ascertainment between 1990 and 2006. Are we also to believe it&#039;s precisely 2.2-fold and it can&#039;t be a little higher?

It&#039;s true that the paper uses appropriately skeptical language at times. I mean, it has to. But you should see what the primary author said to the media. 

Honestly, if they wanted to raise funds for environmental research, there are probably better ways to achieve that. Calling autism an epidemic has many non-trivial moral and economic implications. False epidemics solicit false causes and waste research money.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The paper is OK, a step forward in some areas, good and flawed at the same time, but not as interesting as the debate itself, in this case!</p></blockquote>
<p>I completely disagree. I think people have been too kind to the paper, perhaps because it&#8217;s not a paper by cranks. Frankly, I would&#8217;ve expected a paper like this from the likes of the Geiers. </p>
<p>The only novel result from the paper is the 1.2-fold rise due to age of diagnosis. (I would caution this should not be interpreted as age of diagnosis not having changed much &#8211; that&#8217;s the change in the proportion of diagnoses by age 5). </p>
<p>The other results are recycled from elsewhere. </p>
<p>They use a single Finnish epidemiological study to come up with the figure on the impact of diagnostic criteria. It&#8217;s a complete stretch to suggest that the results of that study might be applicable to California DDS ascertainment between 1990 and 2006. Are we also to believe it&#8217;s precisely 2.2-fold and it can&#8217;t be a little higher?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that the paper uses appropriately skeptical language at times. I mean, it has to. But you should see what the primary author said to the media. </p>
<p>Honestly, if they wanted to raise funds for environmental research, there are probably better ways to achieve that. Calling autism an epidemic has many non-trivial moral and economic implications. False epidemics solicit false causes and waste research money.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529519</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529519</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Joseph:  The study at hand considers diagnostic substitution at a number of points.  It is not the main focus.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph:  The study at hand considers diagnostic substitution at a number of points.  It is not the main focus.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529518</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529518</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jennifer:  Yes, the tone is totally different. This paper is being slammed by people who, sadly, seem to know what they are talking about but will take this paper down because there is the possibility that it can be interpreted as opposed to their opinion.  Which, in my opinion, is more interesting than the paper itself. The paper is OK, a step forward in some areas, good and flawed at the same time, but not as interesting as the debate itself, in this case!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer:  Yes, the tone is totally different. This paper is being slammed by people who, sadly, seem to know what they are talking about but will take this paper down because there is the possibility that it can be interpreted as opposed to their opinion.  Which, in my opinion, is more interesting than the paper itself. The paper is OK, a step forward in some areas, good and flawed at the same time, but not as interesting as the debate itself, in this case!</p>
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		<title>
		By: CyberLizard		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529517</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CyberLizard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529517</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oooh, Orac and Greg going at it! 
*sits back and munches popcorn*]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, Orac and Greg going at it!<br />
*sits back and munches popcorn*</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jennifer		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529516</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529516</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would suggest that all interested people read the actual, published paper at:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cceh/Epipaper1208.pdf

The tone is completely different from that of the press releases.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest that all interested people read the actual, published paper at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cceh/Epipaper1208.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cceh/Epipaper1208.pdf</a></p>
<p>The tone is completely different from that of the press releases.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: itzac		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529515</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[itzac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/12/new-autism-study/#comment-529515</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m about to talk mostly out of my ass, here goes:

You know there is a third possible explanation for the rise besides statistical or environmental. That&#039;s that the cause of autism is genetic, but that human mating habits have changed in recent decades to promote some genetic disorders. There are recent studies that demonstrate changes in partner selection by women taking birth control over women not taking the pill. These changes certainly have implications regarding the immune system. It possible there are other effects, as well. 

Before feminists jump on me, understand I&#039;m totally with you, and I fully understand the implications of that statement. This is worth studying, and if turns out to be true, the proper response is to reevaluate how birth control is used, and to investigate non-hormonal forms of birth control for both men and women.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m about to talk mostly out of my ass, here goes:</p>
<p>You know there is a third possible explanation for the rise besides statistical or environmental. That&#8217;s that the cause of autism is genetic, but that human mating habits have changed in recent decades to promote some genetic disorders. There are recent studies that demonstrate changes in partner selection by women taking birth control over women not taking the pill. These changes certainly have implications regarding the immune system. It possible there are other effects, as well. </p>
<p>Before feminists jump on me, understand I&#8217;m totally with you, and I fully understand the implications of that statement. This is worth studying, and if turns out to be true, the proper response is to reevaluate how birth control is used, and to investigate non-hormonal forms of birth control for both men and women.</p>
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