if the best someone can think of when faced with a willing partner is to hit

Because that’s exactly what I’m looking for in a partner much of the time.and

Did you know that most sadists are also narcissists?

…being a narcissistic masochist, I’m curious what he would have had to say on that subject…Oh well, too late now, I suppose.

If you wish to discuss this I am more than willing too, but please can we do it in a civil manner, after all we are supposed to be adults aren�t we?

Neil, you preempted civil discussion with your very first remark. You came in here with a bully’s swagger, spout off about something you admit you know nothing about.You asked for every bit of mockery you got. Now you want an adult conversation?Ok, let’s take a few Neil quotes from this thread:Neil, on BDSM, despite his lack of experience with it:

I don’t have a problem describing a participent who enjoys BDSM as having ‘unsavory habits’, its much more polite than describing them as a sad sack who gets turned on by hitting women.

Again, arguing from a position of ignorance about BDSM:

Give me a break, if the best someone can think of when faced with a willing partner is to hit, humiliate or brutalise them, they show a staggering lack of imagination.

Neil, going for the Big Bully Gun of Intimidation, comparing BDSM between consenting adults to pedophilia (spelled just fine, thank you – buy a dictionary):

The age-old argument ‘you do not understand’. I don’t understand paedophilia either Kate, tell me is there something I am missing there too?

Neil, admitting his utter lack of experience, and going for the Other Big Bully Gun of Intimidation:

You see the problem is worse than you imagine, I do understand. I have heard all the argument and read all the defences and come to the conclusion that it is the biggest load of nonsense since L Ron Hubbard invented Xenu.

Neil, beating the holy shit out of his own blow-up (straw) man:

Isn’t that convenient, everyone has a hidden abuser within but they don’t know it yet. Just listen to the dogma and the shadows will be cast from thine eyes and you will be transported to a paradise where abuse is the ultimate celebration, only available to those who truly believe.

Neil, again with the big scary comparisons to shut down discussion with intimidation:

Does that remind you of one of those fundamentalists who promise enlightenment but deliver abuse, their narrow interpretation is the only truth and only available from them?

Neil, projecting:

Any one who questions your choices is castigated in the foulest manner because no one could possibly hold any opinion other than your own.

Neil, can’t discuss results to … yeah, big scary comparisons to intimidate blah blah blah… Neil, didn’t you mention something about a “One trick pony” a while back?

You could give Bin Laden lessons in intolerance, and then to transpose your narrow minded fundamentalist approach on to anyone who dares to criticise your dogma demonstrates breathtaking arrogance.

Oh look, I’m wrong because… I’m now a sadist and a narcissist, with neither assessment having any relation to reality. Let’s see how many logical fallacies we can roll into two sentences…

Did you know that most sadists are also narcissists? I think you are proving a point here Katherine.

(at least three)Again with the big scary intimidation gun:

I don�t care what you choose to do Katherine, what I will do is give an opinion about your choices when you come into an open discussion teaching your prejudices. Everyone is allowed to hold an opinion aren�t they? Except by cults that is.

Neil, you haven’t even put an argument forward yet, let alone shown an iota of evidence. So far, every thing you have said is “BDSM sucks. If you disagree, you are just like a pedophile, a fundamentalist, a Scientologist, a sadist, a narcissist, a cultist, and a spousal abuser.”And now you suddenly want to have a discussion with the adults.OK, so what would you like to discuss with us, Neil?First you decide you’re insulted because your ignorance, blatantly displayed by your own verbiage thus far, is pointed out.Neil finally gets around to mentioning evidence, but sadly presents none:

Don’t you understand that it is perfectly reasonable and rational to come to a different opinion to yours after looking at the same evidence?

Uh, what’s being pointed out to you Neil, is that we’ve been asking you this exact question since you showed up with your bucket of mud.Neil, stumbling to explain all the shit he’s been slinging:

I am not demanding that you change your opinions to mine; I am providing an opinion that counters the arguments presented in this thread.

ORLY? And why should anyone give a damn about your opinion, formed in admitted ignorance, about what other consenting adults do in their bedrooms? You’ve not countered anything, Neil. You’ve done nothing to this point but hurl the biggest insults you can think of at people whose sex life doesn’t conform to your narrow little window.Fluff and air:

Its obvious that Kate, Jannie and yourself are clever people, my opinion is that just because you are intelligent does not stop you from believing in what I consider to be utter nonsense.

“Believing in”? Where the hell did that come from? We like sex, we like it rough and passionate sometimes. The only one espousing a belief system here is you, Neil.Again, with the big scary gun:

I disagree with your controversial beliefs, but I do not accuse you of being ignorant because I disagree with you. However I would point out that accusing people of stupidity simply because they do not share your beliefs smacks of totalitarianism.

Presumption:

You have no idea why I am here but your supposition is very wide of the mark.

The evidence would seem to indicate that you are here to insult people who have sex lives you don’t approve of, and bully them back into the closet. Ain’t gonna happen, Neil. I suggest you find someone else to try to bully.Neil, lie:

No I did not compare BDSM to Paedophilia.

Yes Neil, you did:

I don’t understand paedophilia either Kate, tell me is there something I am missing there too?

Neil, who flunked logic:

I don’t understand 9/11 conspiracy theorists, I dont understand how anyone can pay to believe in Xenu. I don’t understand murderers. I am not comparing these to BDSM, I am simply saying that accusing me of not understanding something does not make that thing legitimate.

Not one person here has made the argument that BDSM is legitimate because you don’t understand it. You haven’t made any argument at all, just spit bile and raged against other people’s sex lives.Janie has a favorite expression for the entirety of Neil’s latest offering:

Stephanie you are absolutely convinced that yours is the only truth concerning BDSM, and anyone like myself who questions it is ignorant. The only way out of this ignorance is to educate myself so that when I accept the truth about BDSM I will break the bonds (no pun intended) of my ignorance.This viewpoint allows no possibility that anyone can form an opinion contrary to yours without being ignorant (again)My point is that this stance, your belief in a set dogma which is only understood by your group and only available to the ‘enlightened’, is exactly how fundamentalist groups work. Its interesting that many groups which set themselves up as accepting ‘differing opinions’ (Nuage) are beginning to show the same dynamics of fundamentalist groups especially to anyone who questions them.

“That shoe is on the wrong foot.”No Neil. The point was to mock you because you were being an asshole. The point Neil, what we would all like you to consider, is that if you are ignorant on a subject, like the sex lives of other consenting adults, perhaps you shouldn’t walk into a discussion spouting your ignorance and insulting other people with nasty little insinuations about pedophilia and cultists.You are welcome to have whatever kind of sex you choose, and I won’t mind a bit. I won’t insult you unless you start insulting me, which is exactly how you rolled in here, and have yet to desist. I won’t even point out what an ignorant, asinine, contemptible, closed minded, unjustifiably arrogant, projecting, boorish dickhead you are.I’m good like that.But if you come in here spitting and insulting people with your opinion, you can expect to receive ten fold what you give.We are just as entitled to express ours as you are yours.Now, would you like to finally come sit at the grown-up table? Is there something you’d actually like to discuss, some evidence or basis for your opinion you’d like to set upon the table for all of us adults to talk reasonably about?