Comments on: Democrats will be Democrats

By: SuprKufr

SuprKufr — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:40:08 +0000

I am such a full-blown atheist that I have made a hobby of getting in scripture fights with sincere, loving(tm) Christians. I love the sound that a Christian’s faith makes when it goes from “on fire” to “lukewarm”.And yet, the claws-out, prissy bitch-fest that we call “Democrats” nowadays has made me reconsider the fact that a loving God just might exist. The world will never be able to grow enough corn to satiate my need for popcorn during this show. By all means, Greg, punish those disloyal Democrats! Punish, punish, punish!

By: Joshua Zelinsky

Joshua Zelinsky — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 00:48:47 +0000

Greg, I wouldn’t blame the Florida Republicans for disenfranchising the Florida Dems. The Florida Democratic party made only very superficial objections to the change in date. Look at for example:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs-SAYaJKN4

By: Will Rogers

Will Rogers — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 00:29:47 +0000

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:14:50 +0000

So it would be fair to say that most Americans have trouble understanding how their political system works ?None of us have a clue. The last person to understand us was a French Guy named De Toke-Ville or something like that.We definitely make a distinction between "registered Democrat/Republican/Whatever" and "party activist" with the idea of "membership" kinda not matching too much. But this is all informal (see comments by Philip H.) People say "I am a member of the Democratic Party, as was my Dad and his Dad before him" etc. etc. but not one of these individuals ever had a membership card or paid dues. Maybe didn't even vote very often.there does not seem to be much difference between the power wielded by activists, although the means by which they can wield power may vary.I think that is correct.I do get the impression that it would be easier to participate in the electoral system as an independent in the UK though. Here in Wales something like a third to a half of local councillors have no party affiliation.Interesting. At the local level here, this is often true. The parties do not show up on the radar screen of certain local elections in certain states (like school board or even mayor). Boston has a system with runoffs and, I think, no Party affiliation for mayoral candidate except that everyone in Boston is automatically a Democrat) (this may have changed). But at higher levels, every elected official is either a D or an R pretty much. Except very few. Activists all have to be in a party to work meaningfully within the system, though there may be a party called "Independent" or "independence" for them to join and think they are not in a party. But they are.Only in that organisations cost money to run, and that it seems reasonable to expect members of an organisation to contribute towards those costs.Locally, our party raises money by passing the hat and by selling recipe books and stuff. I'm sure there are other ways, but phone calls to people, internet donations, etc. can all go to the party. Active "membership" is assured by volunteer time rather than paying to be a member. It may not actually be legal to charge for membership in a US political party. Anybody know? I don't think I've ever heard of it.Philip: One thing Greg missed, is that primaries are not just about Presidnetial candidates. They are also about local judgeships, county and state elections for our equivalent of COngress, and major changes to the tax code (which at the state level we citizens do vote on).Absolutely. In fact, in this election year, in Minnesota, the "caucus" for president consisted merely of a secret ballot and that was it. A "democratic party member" could show up, sign in, cast the vote, and leave. Activist stayed around for an hour or two to count those ballots, and to partake in other dicking around with things that did not seem too important but that would eventually lead to great things (electing delegates, etc.). Then, on other days, there are three levels of convention at which all sorts of decisions about elected officials happen and the party platform (at the state level) is hammered out. Plus, the party elects/appoints/etc. its own leadership. We are still in the procss of doing this in Minnesota.And the hat is passed and the hat is passed and the hat is passed.

By: Philip H.

Philip H. — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:21:28 +0000

All,While many of our fellow US citizens may, indeed, not understand the political structure completely, many of us do. We are “members” only in the most cursory sense of any political party – in as much as declaration allows more full participation. By telling the state registrar of voters which Party I align myself with, I get to cast a ballot in the primary. One thing Greg missed, is that primaries are not just about Presidnetial candidates. They are also about local judgeships, county and state elections for our equivalent of COngress, and major changes to the tax code (which at the state level we citizens do vote on). Often, the state will treat the primary as a general election for everythign EXCEPT the PResidential race. In so doing, they virtually ensure that I will tell them which party I support, because I Want to be able to vote on those other issues and candidates. So we do cast votes in primaries, adn they do count for something.THat said, while I count myself part of one of the major parties, I don’t pay them dues, nor do I volunteer for thier efforts. My employer actually frowns on such things, becasue they too easily lead to asking for campaign donations (see the Hatch Act) for an explanation of why this is so. In that sense, I am not a party “member” but its a subtle distinction in the US.

By: Matt Penfold

Matt Penfold — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:36:37 +0000

I would add that membership of an organisation brings with it responsibilities for the conduct of that organisation. Thus someone who is a paid up member of the Republican party has to accept some blame for the conduct of Republican politicians. Someone who merely has chosen to list the Republicans as their chose of affiliated party when registering to vote still bears some blame, but less than paid up members. Those who vote Republican also bear some blame, but less than those who chose to affiliate.

By: Matt Penfold

Matt Penfold — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:27:44 +0000

MRW,Only in that organisations cost money to run, and that it seems reasonable to expect members of an organisation to contribute towards those costs. It also have additional effect of filtering out those people who’s support does not extend as far as paying a few dollars or pounds a year. If someone is not interested enough to do that, is their support that valuable ?

By: MRW

MRW — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:24:11 +0000

“Any reasonable definition of membership of an organisation implies a form to payment to that organisation, along with loyalty to it.”Why?

By: Matt Penfold

Matt Penfold — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:59:01 +0000

Greg,So it would be fair to say that most Americans have trouble understanding how their political system works ? As an outsider I must be in real trouble trying to do so!As for the power of activists, I can only speak for the UK and not for Canada, but here the constituency of an MP is around 100,000 people. It varies a bit as Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales get slight more representation per capita than England, and rural areas get a bit more than urban areas but 100,000 is a decent average. The number of people who members of poltical parties varies of course, but I would doubt it ever goes much above about 1000. None of the main political parties have memberships over 500,000 for the whole country, and there are over 600 constituencies. Of those who are members of a political party most will not take a very active role in party affairs. Newspaper reports I have read suggest that for most parties in most constituencies there is probably only a few hundred (at most) active members. And it is those active members who get to decide who becomes the candidate in their constituency. Most selection meetings require that you turn up to cast your vote.That said there are issues within the Conservative and Labour parties over candidate selection, and more generally the role of the local membership versus the national leadership: I suspect the Liberal Democrats and Nationalist parties have similar issues if not as well reported. A classic case is with the constituency of Blaenau Gwent, which has traditionally been a heartland of Labour support and had returned more than one significant player in the Labour movement over the years. Aneurin Beavin being one (essentially the political founder of the welfare state in the UK. However the Labour party has a policy of choosing certain constituencies to have women only shortlists of candidates, which did not go down well with the local party, who wanted to be able to choose who they wanted. As a result the Labour Party split, with the national party fielding a female candidate from London (who it has to be said did not seem to know much about a former mining area now facing serious problems that mining has gone) and a local splinter group that fielded the widow of a former MP. The splinter group won, with a massive majority. I can understand the reasoning behind the women only shortlist (which all parties seem to have adopted) as women do not have proportional representation in Parliament. The Conservatives have also had similar issues (although not on the scale of Blaenau Gwent), and have a particular problem with selecting candidates from ethnic minorities. The national leadership (which in fairness I can not call racist) has problems with the fact that the local parties seem to keep rejecting would-be MPs who are well qualified but not white.As far as I can tell, from what you have said, and I have read, there does not seem to be much difference between the power wielded by activists, although the means by which they can wield power may vary. I do get the impression that it would be easier to participate in the electoral system as an independent in the UK though. Here in Wales something like a third to a half of local councillors have no party affiliation. Parties become more important at the national level, but there are two independent MPs at the moment (elected as such, rather than leaving a party once elected).

By: greg laden

greg laden — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:26:34 +0000

Jinchi:YOu have not seen my case for the current system because I have not made one, nor do I intend to. I’m simply tired of uninformed whining. If someone wants to make a case for getting rid of super delegates, before they do that, or at least before I will be ingterested in their opinion, I’d like to know that they have some idea why the super delegate system was created to begin with.It may be that we should get rid of them. It may also be that this is just reactionary. I would prefer to see a reasoned argument.I recommend to all the link you provide form the NYT by G.F.