Comments on: Racism and Sexism in the Democratic Primaries: Part II

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:35:25 +0000

Ana, after looking at the article, and going beyond the article to the sources, which was critical, my opinion is much more nuanced. But the core of it is largely the same.Clinton has worked hard for equal rights. She’s done many, many things to be proud of and that should and do appeal to black voters. Ironically, I think that’s the source of some of her problems–the tone deafness I talk about. I think Clinton, actually both Clintons, largely underestimated the depth of the racial distrust that’s out there.Some people have accused Clinton of feeling entitled to the presidency, or at least the nomination. I disagree, but I think she does project an awareness of her qualifications for being taken seriously. That’s well and good, right up until it ran into that distrust. That’s the point where it became a blindness to the fact that, no matter how much she’d done, there were places she still needed to tread carefully, especially in this campaign.So we have both Clintons saying things that could be said much better. We have the Obama campaign being extra wary after early missteps, including the Obama-is-Muslim email flap that went unmentioned in the article. We have a whole slew of supporters on both sides with their own opinions and non-presidential demeanors. And we have the press, which despite TNR’s assertions to the contrary, were quite willing to latch on to mentions of race from both sides, not to mention stirring the pot a la Russert.The question, in my mind, isn’t which campaign inserted race or racialized the debate. Given everything above, I think that was inevitable. The question is why we’re not giving both candidates much more credit for keeping the lid on things as long as they did–and why anyone is still watching Russert or any of these other yahoos.Oh, and with things being as mixed as they were, I have no problem seeing why each candidate’s supporters would feel the other candidate was in the wrong. I get that part completely.

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:02:54 +0000

Ana, here's the rest of my dissection of the article. Conclusions are in a separate comment.Section IIIThis starts with a look at the Hebert piece. Again, Hebert is a partisan but not part of the campaign, and he's mostly talking about partisans. The exceptions are when he talks about Bill suggesting that the treatment of Andrew Young showed that Obama supporters were the ones playing the race card and when he suggests that the Clinton campaign is complicit in what its supporters are saying. I see no evidence of the second claim being true, just as I see no evidence for TNR's claim that Hebert's behavior should be attributed to the Obama campaign.The second paragraph about Clinton's support among blacks completely ignores the Iowa results.As for the King/Johnson fray, none of the links or quotes appear to me to be suggesting anything other than what I've already said: Clinton is slightly tone deaf on the subject of racial relations in the U.S. There are a number of remarks that really say, "This is a painful topic that requires some care when speaking." The Times article linked, in fact, says she pulled back from injecting race into the campaign with her follow-up remarks.Here TNR is definitely listing events out of order in order to make them look worse. 1. Clinton talks about Johnson. 2. Memo is written and distributed. 3. Tolliver notes that people are talking about what the Clinton campaign is trying to accomplish. 4. Obama denounces memo (and should have fired the staffer who wrote it). 5. Moyers speaks.A couple of other notes: The memo was written by a local campaign press aide. And contrary to the characterization of Moyers as being "dismayed," he put it in Shakespearian terms: "much ado about nothing or a tempest in a teapot."At this point, race was in the race to stay. It's hard to characterize it as coming from one camp or the other, though. Clinton said something gracelessly, her quote wasn't given in context by the media, and a fair amount of distrust that had been lying largely underground to most eyes erupted.Section IVWe move backward in time again to pick up the fairy tale story. TNR doesn't give the Franklin quote ("In this beautiful, all-American morning, we are at the cusp of turning the impossible into reality. Yes, this is reality, no fantasy or fairy tale.") or mention that the Brazile quote is in response to shenanigans by Tim Russert.He also doesn't mention that it's not unreasonable to suggest that dismissing Obama as a "kid" is more upsetting in the context of race (see the discussion of "boy" on this blog). Of course, Brazile was wrong in thinking that Bill had said it. That would be the Lt. Gov. of Pennsylvania, speaking while waiting for Bill to appear.On the Jesse Jackson comments, much of the upset was based around the fact that Bill's answer didn't seem to match the question, being taken out of the context of a much longer conversation with the press. And however it was intended, it was, again, tone deaf. It was dismissive. To add another Jackson quote on the subject, "And I said to Barack, as a tactical matter, resist any temptation to come down to that level." Race was already a question; I have a tough time blaming anyone who had trouble seeing Bill's statement in another light. Nobody liked this one at the time, which is why, I suspect, this is the most link-free part of the essay.On Emanuel Cleaver, yep. Jackson Jr. is still a creep. He's also right in this case, unfortunately. When Lewis did switch to supporting Obama a couple of weeks after his denial, the pressure of a constituency that voted for Obama and a primary challenge were pointed out as reasons for the change.Female supporters of Obama were subjected to some of the same arguments, but they didn't have the same constituency issues.Hey, wait, now we're being pointed at the same NYT opinion piece as in Section II. Did Rich write more than one? Can I please have a clear timeline?Then we get to the photo. Tempers on the subject of race are already flaring. There's a claim that it came from the Clinton campaign. The campaign doesn't immediately deny it because, as with the memo, it may well have come from a low-level staffer. Obama's rep goes OTT. Clinton's chooses to ignore that African=Muslim for large number of voters and that allegations that Obama is a Muslim do jeopardize his chances. Everyone plays badly, Drudge sits back and laugh, and TNR puts out a piece that lays all the faults at Obama's feet.

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:45:16 +0000

Help! My comment is too long or linky and is stuck in limbo.

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:40:43 +0000

Ana, I'm far from done, but this will be long. Here's the start of my comments on the article:Section ITo start with, the article wears its biases on its sleeve. For example, the article emphasizes Newsday's criticism of Obama's NAFTA flier without mentioning that Newsday concluded, "ï¿½we should have been clearer." FactCheck.org said, "We frankly find Clinton's past position on NAFTA to be ambivalent." They do, for the record, also find little difference between her current position and Obama's. They also find that both of them "strain the facts on" their health care plans and both sent misleading mailings.So I'm cautious and really wishing someone like FactCheck were addressing the issue instead of the press, which has been demonizing both candidates.Section IIOn the "cocaine use" incident, I found analysis that suggested that both campaigns (and, of course, the press) were unwilling to let the Shaheen matter drop. I'd agree. Watching the video of Penn, it's hard to find support that he was hectored and confused into referring to cocaine. He does so at four minutes into the interview and after about three questions (in as much as Matthews asks distinct questions). And Edwards' advisor is the one who jumped on Penn first, and going off topic. Matthew's tries to stir the pot, but Obama's advisor pushes the talk back to issues. Of course, he's already suggested that Clinton's campaign is responsible for the tone of Shaheen's comments even if he didn't make the point at her behest.However, using the word "cocaine" doesn't seem like such a breach that Obama needed to say he would have let Penn go. That's clearly hyperbole, aimed at making Clinton's judgment look bad. I probably would have let Penn go, myself, or at least demoted him, but that's got a lot more to do with the fact that he looked like he was smirking through the video. Not what I would have wanted for my public face.Rich, the Times columnist, does level the charge that Clinton's campaign played the race card. He cites statements by Bill before and after the South Carolina primary, the racial makeup of the questioners on Clinton's Hallmark town hall meeting, and statements by staffers that Obama was specifically appealing to black voters based on his race. I do remember thinking at the time, while I was supporting Edwards, that Bill was turning out to be a craptastic political spouse. The column is definitely more sensational than it should be (see my prior comments on the press), but I think it has some points.As for the Bradley Effect, Robinson, who is linked, defines the effect exactly the same way the TNR columnist does. He's pointing out that this has happened frequently in the past, not so much lately, but may be a reason not to trust polls. This isn't what the TNR article is suggesting at all.I will agree that Jackson played the race card. It may even have been the first use of race by either campaign, but the TNR article is so mixed up on timeline, it's hard to tell.That's it for tonight. No conclusions until I'm done.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:42:18 +0000

Ana,I am totally listening, as always, to you.The New Republic Article is sooo looong! Our program’s admissions deadline was Monday. I have a manuscript back I’m supposed to help fix. I could go on…But yes, I’m reading it. I am totally turned on to the idea that the racism card (the accusation of the Clinton campaign being racist, or playing on racist fears, to be more exact) is something that should not be accepted at face value and should be examined and critiqued. I did not think that before but you are telling me that I was wrong. I am therefore going to give this all due consideration.Knowing you, I would not want to bet against what you are saying. But I do want to actually know and learn, and I will. I need a little time.

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:24:55 +0000

Ana, I don’t think you or the argument are responsible for any discomfort. It’s just really rare to see that kind of sincere respect in the middle of a heated political argument on a blog. It’s not a bad thing (quite the contrary); there’s just no netiquette for dealing with it and who wants to be responsible for screwing anything up?

By: Analiese

Analiese — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:09:37 +0000

Thanks Stephanie, I appreciate your thoughts here on Greg’s blog and can understand that some delicacy may be at play with regard to my argumentative stance on some issues. I have thought of Greg as a friend for a long while now, not to mention that I have a degree in anthropology largely as a result of my admiration for him as a teacher. I do, however, think it’s important for friends to be able to disagree, and while Greg has taken some of our conflict into the private realm of e-mail, I do think that our points of contention are relevant to the subject he has introduced. I’m new to the blogging thing, though, and admit that I may have crossed some kind of line on etiquette that made people uncomfortable. Sorry fer that…

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:37:24 +0000

Ana, I’m not sure whether I’m one of the people you’re addressing this to, but it’s on my to-do list when I have a chance to give it the time and thought it deserves (especially to sort out TNR motives from my motives from everything else). I owe Joel some of that too. Yesterday wasn’t the time for either, but I will get there.As for being heard, you’re obviously someone Greg knows well and whose opinion he values. If you don’t get as much direct response as you’d like, consider that for once people might be expressing some delicacy on the internet in not stepping into an argument between friends. 🙂

By: Ana

Ana — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:03:32 +0000

Anybody check out that link I posted from The New Republic (just above)? It’s a pretty good summary of what I felt was occurring during the primaries re. race (and ‘politics’). A large majority of the commenters here seemed to believe that the Clinton camp was acting outrageously after a point (Greg and others have made much of the “hard-working white” episode – I tried to dissent, but never felt heard). As a complete junkie, the NR article here presents a very clear description of what I felt had been occurring day by day, especially on the way to South Carolina. Check it out! Consider an alternative reality. It’s good for you.

By: Analiese

Analiese — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:48:03 +0000

An alternative interpretation of the playing of race-cards during the Democratic presidential campaigns of Clinton and Obama:http://www.tnr.com/toc/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304