Comments on: Online Poll: Pledge of Allegiance in Small Town Minnesota

By: themadlolscientist

themadlolscientist — Sun, 11 May 2008 15:12:32 +0000

Let’s see if I remember correctly:”I led the pigeons to the flag of the New Ninety Steaks of America, and to the public for Richard stands, one nation underdog, invisible, with liver tea and jefftist for all.”Or something like that.

By: John C. Randolph

John C. Randolph — Sun, 11 May 2008 00:04:48 +0000

I have wept with pride while singing the terrifying question the Anthem asksI wonder how many people ever realize that the question is “is the land still free?”, rather than, “is that fabric symbol of freedom still there”?-jcr

By: John C. Randolph

John C. Randolph — Sun, 11 May 2008 00:00:13 +0000

Jason,You have a brilliant future ahead of you as a dutiful apparatchik. Have you considered applying to the Cuban or North Korean embassies for a visa?Clearly, you have no business at all living as a free man in a free country.-jcr

By: John C. Randolph

John C. Randolph — Sat, 10 May 2008 23:57:43 +0000

Punishing any citizen, let alone a child, for declining to participate in mouthing a loyalty oath is an absolute disgrace to everything America stands for. We overthrew our king, we defeated imperial Japan, we destroyed the “thousand year Reich”, and held off the obscenity of communism during the cold war for FREEDOM, not for a country where petty bureaucrats get to impose conformity on our children.This repugnant little tyrant posing as an educator should not only be dismissed from the taxpayers’ employ, he should be prosecuted for civil rights violations.-jcr

By: DJMoore

DJMoore — Sat, 10 May 2008 23:41:01 +0000

Oh, the “terrifying question”? It’s not about that star-spangled banner; it’s about the land. Long after we have ceased to be brave or free, elected tyrants will see to it that the flag still waves, and that their subjects recite pledges and oaths and anthems, to it and to them, ad nauseum. See North Korea.

By: djmoore

djmoore — Sat, 10 May 2008 23:30:49 +0000

Shane gets it.The Left is often assumed to have a monopoly on Political Correctness, but in fact the Right has its own very poisonous franchise, of which this is one of the fouler products.The Pledge, or any loyalty oath, is meaningless if it is not given voluntarily.That aside:1. Most elementary school kids I’ve asked don’t even know what the words mean. “Pledge”? “Allegiance”? “Republic”? “Indivisible”? They should know, of course, by about fourth grade. But they don’t, and oughtn’t be reciting empty gibberish.2. It’s a scandal that not only do the kids not know what the words mean in grade school, but that they graduate from high school without knowing even the rudiments of how their government works; or what rights are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, yes ya darn betcha including the Second; or the history of our nation, the good as well as the bad. In short, it is wrong that they are not taught why it is a right and honorable thing to take the Pledge, so that they will want to do so of their own free will, and mean it when they do.3. Pledge to the Flag? Piss off; I’ll not swear to any rag. Liberty and justice for all? Come back with a warrant. Under God? Prove it. If I take any pledge or oath, it will be to uphold and defend the Constitution, flawed and imperfect though it may be. That I’d do gladly, any time, any place, and I wish there was an appropriate venue for ordinary citizens to do so in a meaningful way. (I failed my physical when I tried to enlist, and now I’m too old and fat anyway. And I’d make a lousy elected official. And, no, I won’t swear to uphold the law, because there’s too damn much of it, and most of it doesn’t make any sense.)I love the Republic for which the Flag stands, and I give it my allegiance wholeheartedly. I’d die to defend it. I have wept with pride while singing the terrifying question the Anthem asks; I cannot even think the words without my throat tightening. But the Pledge is empty socialist claptrap, and requiring kids to blindly recite it is antithetical to everything that would make it worth saying.

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Sat, 10 May 2008 21:39:17 +0000

Ed, I don’t think the kids are asking you to excuse them, and our rights, thankfully for almost everyone, don’t depend on the use we put them to. I was well aware of that even in eighth grade. I’m a little confused, too. These manners you refer to–was that the assault itself or the ignoring it as it was going on next to you?Greg, I was laughing at the image of all the camo on the lake when I realized that was exactly what Ben was wearing while smelting last weekend.

By: Ed Darrell

Ed Darrell — Sat, 10 May 2008 19:31:28 +0000

I’d be willing to excuse them if they had either a religious or political reason.But if they’re just too damned lazy to stand up and they think it somehow gores their teachers, I say let ’em stew. We don’t have time for non-thinking non-actors in schools and civics.Bet I’m the outlier on that one.I remember a bunch who refused to stand at an Orioles game — 30 years ago? — unfortanately a row or two in back of a group of biker Vietnam vets. Oddly, no one saw much of anything. If they refused to stand again, it was far away from Vietnam vets.Protest is one thing. Manners is another. Refusal to stand might easily be considered fighting words among a group of veterans. Kids shouldn’t get beaten up for being too lazy to think through their being too lazy to stand up.

By: Shane

Shane — Sat, 10 May 2008 17:02:40 +0000

Come on this is ridiculous. The pledge does nothing to stop anti-American attitudes. Many say the pledge and go on to victimize Americans. We are a free country, and that itself is our greatest insurance in loyalty. Loyalty is not brainwashed into children by saying it often enough. Our loyalty should be fostered by trust and reason, not pledges. I have no loyalty to those that wish to shred the constitution. We the people are responsible to ensure it is not, blind loyalty only makes that less possible. The whole reason we are better than other countries, is that we have the choice. The kind enforced loyalty that Stalin fostered is neither required, nor is it respected.

By: MadPanda

MadPanda — Sat, 10 May 2008 16:07:41 +0000

Okay, I gotta delurk, here.This was the subject of a Supreme Court case brought waaay back in 1943, which more or less said that one cannot mandate the Pledge of Allegience for schoolchildren (or anybody else, for that matter).”If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citzens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”–Justice Jackson, West Virginia v. Barnette (1943)The school district acted wrongly, and that’s pretty much all there is to that. They can wrap themselves in the flag if they wish, but coerced shows of patriotism cheapen the genuine article in much the same way that coerced prayer no doubt displeases the gods.Regrettably, this has been forgotten by too many people, as that poll made only too clear.The MadPanda (FCD)…relurking…