Comments on: Homeschoolers Who Do Not Learn Science Should Not Receive a Diploma

By: the real cmf

the real cmf — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:48:26 +0000

now your equivocating….

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:29:57 +0000

For once, CMF, I can unequivocally agree with you.

By: the real cmf

the real cmf — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:58:35 +0000

Stephanie, you know as well as I do that there is NO SUCH THING AS GOOD BAROQUE…and of course that all good satyrs are ‘bad’….

By: Cherish

Cherish — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:52:06 +0000

Your assertion that I’ve set up some kind of false dichotomy is simply untrue. There you go doing it again!Seriously, though, I and others have said here that this whole “homeschoolers don’t produce documentation business” is bull. I have listed links for places that deal with gifted education and advocate homeschooling. If you need me to, I will produce my son’s IQ scores as well as results from standardized testing achievement testing (from both before and after we homeschooled…and there’s a big difference (positive delta) in achievement testing). There is a SIG of Mensa that is devoted to homeschooling. There are a lot of people who do it for reasons other than religious!You and others like to ignore these little aspects of the discussion and say things, “But that’s just a small group of homeschoolers. On average, the whole thing sucks.”Well, on average, public schools suck as bad or worse than homeschooling. And according to the studies which have been done, the data substantiates it. People may like to poke holes in the data, but I have yet to see any studies which disprove this assumption. (And people don’t give me BS about how HSers avoid this. Homeschoolers are only too happy to show off how brilliant their children are, by your own arguments.) Give me some hard data (not just people poking holes in the studies already done), and maybe I’ll change my mind.

By: Woody

Woody — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:56:12 +0000

P.S. I didn’t mention that one of my children whom we homeschooled had a medical problem which could not be adequately accommodated by the public schools–one more advantage of homeschools.

By: Woody

Woody — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:51:25 +0000

Steph: ...learn how to disagree with someone without calling them ignorant and prejudiced.Stephanie, I merely pointed out that you and others who hold strong opinions against homeschooling have not done adequate research. Your perceptions are incorrect and come from bias rather than studies. Therefore, what you claim is not supported by truth, and that needs to be pointed out. Is it wrong to say that someone is not qualified? (Surely, you've never accused our President of that.)Beth: "Homeschools don't have half the problems of government schools." is not a statement supported by any evidence.Elizabeth, you are coming up with the typical liberal way of avoiding a discussion--asking for higher evidence beyond the obvious and none of which you would even outwardly agree was acceptable. It's simply a cop-out.Homeschools are not: run by teacher unions, pawns of politicians, overrun by gangs, beset with waste, a place with drug and sex problems or for passing out birth control without parental notification, taught by educators who became certified because they took silly and useless courses, run by bureaucrats, a lab for social experiments and left-wing indoctrination, forced to avoid all uses of God, led by teachers from the college department of students with the lowest SAT scores, and expected to require all students to conform to a one size fits all mentiality. Do you want me to go one?From personal experience, I know that homeschoolers cover a full day of public school work by 11:00 AM and get better results. I speak from experience of public, private, and homeschools.Do you really need evidence?

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:49:05 +0000

CMF, bad Baroque? I prefer a little more realism in my satyrs, please.

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:42:35 +0000

Wow, nice to see this subject has legs somewhere else. It's been the topic of a lively discussion over at my blog, where I also posted my article, for the last three days. I have to say that most of the homeschoolers I've spoken with have been very courteous and thoughtful people, and they've really changed my previous perception of the homeschool community as being primarily fundamentalist Christian. It's a much more diverse and secular group than I had assumed.When Kelly says I could have helped myself by leaving homeschooling out of it entirely, she has a good point. My argument really isn't just with homeschoolers, it's with any form of education that teaches non-science (creationism/Intelligent Design) in place of real science. I have a lot of other problems with homeschooling, too, and my discovery of the MDHSA group so nearby, which grants state recognized diplomas despite teaching creationism, prompted me to try to marry the two subjects, which I admit I didn't do as well as I could have.To the other commenters who say I'm dogging religious families, let me assure that I'm not. Religious freedom is a basic human right that should always be protected. You have the right to believe whatever you want. But schools should have the responsibility to teach children the truth. And the objective, empirical, scientifically verified truth is that life on Earth did not arise and develop as the creationist model would have us believe. Creationism simply isn't true. Believe in it if you want, but schools should never teach it as science.Thanks for the link, Greg! I appreciate it, and I love reading everyone's comments!--Steve Shives

By: the real Randal P. CMurFy

the real Randal P. CMurFy — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:22:46 +0000

Woody: I think Eliz. was referencing her fondness for the phrase “creating baby potheads”…or maybe it was the thought that kids actually can have the “ability for every child to engage in the issues of their day”?

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:58:04 +0000

Woody, you’re not nearly as entertaining as CMFI was just about to comment the same thing! … great minds …