Comments on: pre-Columbian use of rafts to transport goods

By: Brian Schmidt

Brian Schmidt — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:13:31 +0000

To be fair to Diamond, his book is about Eurasian dominance of civilization, including Chinese dominance over thousands of years, and only discusses why Europe dominated the last 500 years in a latter part of the book.Wiki has a good summary:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_germs_and_steel

By: Manuel

Manuel — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:13:54 +0000

Looks like Jared Diamond was wrong yet again. He says there was no regular contact between North and South. Besides this raft, there is evidence of South American metallurgy, bells, tweezers, copper axes, etc in Western Mexico.Diamond’s big problem is that he doesn’t acknowedge some huge facts:1) China had guns, germs, and steel BEFORE Europe did. (Hello?! China invented the gun.) China also sailed as far as Africa under Cheng He almost 100 years before Columbus. Yet China did not reach out to colonize, rape, invade, enslave, and commit genocide against the foreigners that they encountered. Europeans did this and more. Geography and plants cannot explain this fact away. Diamond wants to turn “the environment” into “God”, and it’s false that Europe was more conducive to superior civilization.Just ask the ancient Greeks. They saw Northern Europe as a backwater full of savages. Alexander the Great preferred to send his men EAST to find the real action.Most of Europe’s civilization comes from the East anyways: the wheel, writing, cities, guns, cannons, gunpowder, crossbows, magnetic compass, windmills, moveable type printing press, chariots, water wheels, pottery wheels, paper, paper money, metal helmets, metal swords, metal body armor, sundials, books, Christianity, algebra, geometry, written laws, water clocks, lanteen sails, sternpost rudders, square ship hulls, maps, ink, candles, wheelbarrows, iron-casting, and on and on and on.If Europe’s geography was so superior, then why were all these things not invented by Europeans? Diamond uses the phony term “Eurasian” to sneak Europeans into a false “shared credit” for things invented by China and The Middle East.Good for MIT. Another slap in the face for Jared Diamond.

By: Eamon Knight

Eamon Knight — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:39:40 +0000

Well, damn: I don’t get to be the first to mention Thor Hyerdahl.Read the book when I was 9yo. Loved it.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:13:26 +0000

Ricahrd! Cool, send it to me!

By: Richard Parker

Richard Parker — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:23:31 +0000

“I would like to give you more, but remarkably, the University of Minnesota does not subscribe to this journal.Nor do I these days.”This, indeed, is a pain in the arse.But you can join certain major American public libraries (if you are prepared to lie through your teeth about where you live) and use their electronic facilities.I live on a very small island miles away from anywhere, but can access journal articles very easily, using this subterfuge.regardsRichard

By: Richard Parker

Richard Parker — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:12:57 +0000

Well we goddam knew that. Thor Heyerdahl wrote about it in some detail.These must have been somewhat like the annual ‘Hiri’ trips taken by the Motu of south-east New Guinea (underneath the bird’s tail) when they took off in boats with pots to sell to the Papuan river delta natives in return for sago, a staple food.The Hiri boats were 4-5 dugouts held together, (ie a raft) with an overlapping platform, enough to hold 100 men. About 30,000 pots were exported each year.Strange how people seem to do the same thing all over the world, isn’t it?regardsRichard

By: Lassi Hippeläinen

Lassi Hippeläinen — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 02:29:37 +0000

“This article uses mathematical simulation of balsa rafts’ mechanical and material characteristics to determine whether these rafts were suitable vessels for long- distance travel.”In 1947 a balsa raft sailed 7000 km across the Pacific Ocean, and could have kept on going. I didn’t know Thor Heyerdahl is so shunned that even his real life experiments are unknown…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-tiki

By: Karen

Karen — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:02:47 +0000

Ah, but what did they use for life vests?

By: Brian Schmidt

Brian Schmidt — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:05:59 +0000

Interesting. I think Jared Diamond argues in Guns Germs and Steel that technology transfer between Aztecs and Incas was extremely slow, and gave some examples. I’d have to go back to the book to take a look at the argument, but there appears to be some potential contradiction between these viewpoints.