Is there a god and is heaven real?

Apparently they had a debate in the UK.

The idiots lost.

That was fun.

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19 Responses to Is there a god and is heaven real?

  1. steve Welsh says:

    And we have proven that Atheists can be assholes.

  2. Greg Laden says:

    An atheist speaking in a normal voice and not making a point in an argumentative manner is generally seen as shouting and being unreasonable. So why bother?

  3. Corkscrew says:

    “What is interesting here is that we’ve got people from different faiths and who all believe in some kind of heaven in a different sense. But every single one of them believes in this heaven on the basis of faith and faith by definition is believing in things without evidence and personally I don’t do that because I’m… not… an… idiot.”

    What was interesting there was the audience reaction. You could practically hear people thinking: “Did she go there? I think she actually went there. Ohmigod, I can’t believe she went there!”

    It was kinda like that Gary Larson cartoon, where a chicken hanging from a balloon drifts into a room full of katana-wielding samurai…

  4. Ibis3, féministe avec un titre française de fantaisie says:

    You think she’s the asshole? Sure, she could have used a term other than idiot (deluded, foolish, gullible, ignorant), but no matter what word she used, they would have likely said she was rude.

    Meanwhile, here are the things that sounded assholish to me in that short clip:

    1. a heaven in which women are prizes given to a man
    2. disapproval of a woman’s bodily autonomy despite the fact that according to them, the products of a terminated pregnancy “go to heaven”
    3. condescension about how deprived the atheist is by the lack of “that other dimension” in her life.
    4. the blatant use of an equivocation between “faith” in currency and “faith” in supernatural places
    5. an attempt to shame her for being “rude” instead of (or at least before) addressing her position.

  5. sailor says:

    How do you know they lost?

  6. Greg Laden says:

    Sailor, because it is obvious!

  7. Aratina Cage says:

    Corkscrew (too funny!):

    There is nothing so effectual in getting theists of different stripes to unite as setting a gnu atheist in their midst and giving her a chance to speak her mind.

  8. Draken says:

    Was that a single unbeliever against an army of eejits, I mean, believers and their sympathetic audience? Then I’m not surprised she’s trying to make her point by speaking twice as fast and using strong language.

  9. Kiwi Sauce says:

    I’m not following the money example used by the theists to illustrate faith. I agree with the points raised on the atheist side – that money exists (e.g. I hold it in my purse, my hand), I have bank statements etc. To go further, when I hand over a $10 note for payment (or via internet/AP/etc) the seller agrees with me on (1) that the value is $10 and (2) that money did change hands so I am recognised as having paid for the goods/services.

    I don’t see how money is similar to theist faith, apart from the fact that we have society (and even cross-nationally, given exchange rates) agree on the use and value of money. If we had the zombie apocalypse tomorrow and our infrastructure fell over, yes the e-money would “disappear”, but all the money I have in my purse would still be there, it would just be useless because money would no longer be important in exchange.

    Would someone mind enlightening me on this “point”?

  10. Greg Laden says:

    If money was like religion then you could just think it up.

  11. John Morales says:


    (Evidence that the Overton window in relation to religious faith is galloping along to the right)

  12. Denis Loubet says:

    Rude? Not nearly as rude as the belief that she somehow deserves to be tortured forever in a lake of fire.

  13. Rich Wilson says:

    I once heard (I’m pretty sure Hitchens said it) that a Muslim woman’s reward in heaven is that she gets her husband back.

  14. Kristen says:

    Money and religion do have some things in common:
    They were both invented by humans.
    They both only mean something so long as there is a human system giving it meaning.
    People will do crazy, harmful things in their name.

  15. That was fun.

    It would be interesting to see the rest of the debate. Hmm.

  16. OzzMan says:

    Hey mate, do you have a full debate of this?? appreciate if you could give a lead, thanks mate.

  17. Greg Laden says:

    No, I don’t, sorry.

  18. Thatiam says:

    Ancient men proclaimed things or men with power a “god”. For example wind, fire, a beast or a strong wicked human. That meant men competed to claim the most powerful god as their own. Soon the most powerful god was invisible and lived in the air about them. Nothing to prove there. Building on that concept the attributes of god were limitless. Today ignorant men still worship an unseen, unheard, untouched, invisible and unreal god. Narcissistic religious fanatics have poisoned the minds of themselves and others by founding religions based on fear of a mythical god to extort offerings to support their own unrighteous indulgences. Without funding by ignorant people the mythical “god and heaven” would take their places with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

  19. paula says:

    God IS real. When I die, I cannot wait to see HIM!
    That is how I feel. We all have our own beliefs
    and we cannot judge others based on how they feel.
    One thing is for certain. We will all die from this
    world one day and then we will see what happens.
    Thing is, my faith is what lifts me up and gets me
    through this life. I have heard that God will only
    reward the faithful, nevertheless, I feel that His
    Mercy is so powerful He will welcome us all Home!
    With Love, Paula

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